They have no moving parts. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. They plug all the time. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? $21 . I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . 2) Frost on the Vents. What effect would it have on performance, if any? With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? R404a for freezing of product. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Is there a graph? Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. 5. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. And I already have so much time and money in this a/c project that I REFUSE to cut any corners as small as a TEV.It doesn't help that most people in the business (at least that I come in contact with, present company excluded, of course!) leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. Its cylinders are colored white. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. Measure what you have now.3) Go back to the page in step one, and find the largest condensor you can put in your vehicle. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. The difference really shows up on the high side. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. The AC usually does not work at all. . Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Is it exponential, squared? 1) Warm Air From Vents. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. Also called the orifice tube. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Moreso, it had been banned. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. Can I use the one for the R-12? R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. Compressor. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). 5. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. Jun 17, 2011. . It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. However, R134a is better than R12. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. In short, NO! If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". You can also check the Aux fan in your case. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. Very nice! An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. Answer: OK, I'll bite. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. There are three different refrigerants officially sanctioned by the EPA for automotive usage: r-12, r-. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. This can be very very expensive. Sense ells no existirem. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? As per their results . The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. I don't think it has any air dams or seals, I'll check to make sure. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. maintain the A/C of older cars. Jun 19, 2007. You can use this space to go into a little more detail about your company. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Helical and Serpentine coils. There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. Just leave it alone for now. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Kommentare . As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? . R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. But I don't want to waste your time. They would then make short "jumper hoses" to connect to the existing stock hoses, refit your old fan if there is a "pusher" fan, and recharge to specs. How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. Large temperature difference between expansion valve inlet and outlet oReplace expansion valve Air . Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly.
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