I can only speak for THR, but we are not allowed to use adjustable shackles, or I should say we are not allowed to have shackles of different lengths. There's a happy medium between running just the right soft right rear and going too soft. by RonL Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:36 am, Post I ran a street stock/sportsman from 1995 to 2000 with a metric frame. IMHO they should be able to remove the two upper rear control arms and replace them with a single, fabricated, adjustable upper control arm (top link). For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Conclusion The Metric four-link rear suspension is here to stay for a while. LIT-722 C7 Z06 Corvette Heat Exchanger 80294NDP. That's one thing I've really never understood about some street stock classes that don't allow weight jacks. There are two main ways to tighten or loosen the car. 1 being the most important. 10702FMC FRAME & CAGE - FAB CHEVELLE MOD. This is what I did to my Metric that won the 2012 UMP National Championship. Dwarf Mr Snow, Fred's Tie Dye, Saucy Mary, Sweet Scarlet, Kangaroo Paw Green, Idaho Gem and Banana Toes are just a few of the varieties one gardener is growing in a 4x8 bed of "bulletproof" tomatoes. by RonL Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:02 am, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, Shocks, Springs, Brakes, Frame, Body Work, etc. The metric cars at THR may be as competitive as the camaros but at CC they were not even close untill we were allowed to change to 3 link and a panhard bar. We can add the stiffer bushings to most of the points, but leave several, one at the top and one at the bottom, as a rubber bushing to absorb the torque created in roll. Be careful not to overdue that. Quote. Subtle changes often go unnoticed, especially when they're hard to see without jacking the car up and crawling underneath. You need to locate the moment correctly, and the cambers . For warmer track temperatures, you are going to need to tighten the car. So, here is, in order of logic and importance, a list of setup parameters we need to address to make our cars fast and consistent. The setup we choose needs to be arranged so that the dynamics are balanced between the front and the rear suspensions. Both of these are necessary components that will be needed to win championships. Refer to the images below. I thought these were street STOCKS? 30 day Money Back Guarantee!- If you don't learn something that helps you go faster, email me and I will refund 100% of your money backAfter payment you will be directed to a download page. You must log in or register to reply here. Not that you can't get the same handling results with shims, etc., but it's a whole lot easier to adjust the handling of the car with weigh jackers. I was also wondering, are there any tricks you have to make your tires wear slower without damaging speed. That energy has to go somewhere, (1st & 2nd law of thermodynamics) so it can either go into tires causing them to heat up lose grip and wear faster, or you can try to take up some of that heat up into the brakes where it will be dissipated on exit and down the straight. I would get the metric arms from Speedway P-N 910-31134-RH (LH) they are 8.0 and 8.5 long. Ive read alot of stuff, some of it usefull some of it crazy. #1. I got a 1000 on ebay 150897831883 at like $5.00 I would do 1100 RF, 1000 LF, 225 LR and, 175 RR but that was on big chevelle or impala chassis. Officials are trained to find sneaky parts. Do not seek aero downforce at the expense of aero drag increase. I don't really encourage that method. If he was at the track and saw the car run he would know that it worked ( by the way it also worked at Eriez ). They should also be able to run any panhard bar. . Shocks Its not necessary unless your own a road course. The sportsman car i had at SAS was always a fast car and it was coil spring 4 link no panhard bar and no weight jacks. When the track is cooler, you may want to loosen the car some. Basically, if the suspension mounting points must remain stock, the leaf spring cars will dominate (at least on ashpalt.). ; C1 - Designed for medium to low brake temperatures and provides good cold bite while being rotor friendly. These are the general rules unless you are trying to "tie down" a corner. Unbalanced setups exhibit easily observed characteristics, such as unusually high degree of wear and temperature on one tire versus the other tires. I have had a lot of feedback from teams who did the same with the same results. The set-up really planted the RR tire. I also was involved with beta testing for NASCAR Racing Simulation Games. First of all, the design is intended to solve several problems. Verndale, MN. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. This is because of the construction using angled, from a top view, arms that converge to points called instant centers. If the car's center of gravity was say 16.5 inches (around average for an asphalt car that has been lowered), there would only be a 2-inch moment arm to try to roll the car. But the most useful rear steer will only occur on acceleration and not at mid-turn. The control arm angles affect the rear steer and the third-link angle can redistribute load upon acceleration. A spring split of 250-lb/in spring in the left rear and 200-lb/in spring in the right rear is common. They should be matched up within a couple of degrees of average temperature across the tread. . I ran a metric street stock at HMP for a number of years and was definitely not at a disadvantage. Am I correct that you would reattach the sway bar after making the perch adjustments? I also vote for weight jackers in ALL SS or Sportsman level cars simply because they're so cheap and make life so much easier for the teams. Thank you, that forum is a wealth of information. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around the 1980's as well as some Ford cars, such as the Thunderbird, from the same time period. 8. As each season comes along, our knowledge of what we need and desire grows. Fox80. Customer is to bring a clean non-sandblasted frame when picking up the chassis. But if you cant 11 inchers is all you can go. Would a 11 in be better or a 13 in spring in back be better. Yes, outright violations are penalized, but creative interpretations or improvements in area that have no specific rule usually get the Don't bring that backnext week penalty. I think I'll make a proposal along these lines. Includes: Performance handling basics, chassis & roll cage fabrication, front suspension alignment, changing the roll center and camber curve, rear suspensions, springs and shocks, tires (bias and radial), stagger, gearing, basic chassis set-up for asphalt and dirt tracks, weight adjustments, tuning the car to . the metric cars at THR are at a big disadvantage in terms of track width, ride height, and rear suspension but if they were to be able to use a third link and panhard bar they can be very competitive even without weight jacks. The very last thing you need to worry about is your aero package. You can use your stock metric pitman arm and . S3 - Street Stock - USA $4.00; S3 - Street Stock - Lanier $4.00; S3 - Street Stock . This is very "old school" but when applied with a balanced setup, very effective. Disconnect the sway bar and zero (unload) it. 1. On a metric four-link car, the four control arms determine the rear moment center height too. Also the rear springs on that car Dave 24, are either Landrum 200-175 or Afco 194-166can't remember, Only if you are racing anywhere except Bonneville.lol Chad. var contact = "Contact Us" Unfortunately, most rule books that I have dealt with are very vague. It was either cheat or park it until the rules change. Your email address will not be published. Smaller gains can come later on after the more important aspects of setup are resolved. Remember, we're still using stock components, we're just making small relocations of those points. The moment arm is 5.5 inches for the Late Model and is much easier to set up. My old car had a stock frame front to back with just the suspension pick-up points changed, it took a lot of trial and error over three years to get a good baseline for most tracks. About Us. Plan to win in a repeatable fashion. by doing this and the use of lowering blocks the rear roll center can be changed, I know it's not a quick adjustment but it is an adjustment the the metric car in the stock. After you get the cross weight where you want it, adjust the ride heights. Ill also answer a couple of common questions: These changes are applicable to all asphalt oval cars. The more third link angle you have, the more antisquat there is. We run on a semi flat 1/2 mile asphalt track. Online: $349.99. The use of softer front springs, larger sway bars, and big spring split in the rear has swept across the country for more than five years now with mixed results. Try to at least get to 53% front and 53% left weight with out adding ballast behind the rear wheels. How to Lower the Cross Weight in an iRacing Setup. LIT-719 80292 C7 Corvette Radiator. If there is, try to adjust the brake bias to eliminate the adverse condition. Over the years I have had lots of feedback that most . We have done a lot with the front roll center and cant wait to see how it does, after that, i found some legal stuff for the rear that we will try. There are a lot of things you can do to improve handling. Vintage/Classic/Historical Engine Tech, 3V Performance Engine & Valve train Development, Race Cars & Parts - For Sale or Wanted, Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, Re: Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/r ss.326355/. Its a whole lot more driver and a whole lot less setup on dirt. For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. That extra effort is what separates the front runners from the rest of the field. View all S3SS. However, that is only one of the three basic geometric ways to move a tire on a race vehicle. Roll Center or Moment Center. The amount of resistance is directly related to the degree of side view angle we put in our control arms and the amount of brake force used. This means keep track of weight coming off and going on. Remember that drag is an important aspect of aero design. Stock cars using the metric-style four-link rear suspension usually need to do this just to achieve a balanced setup with the high rear moment centers in those cars. How do I adjust the cross weight in an iRacing setup? Alignment issues are defined as: A. rearend alignment, B. contact patch alignment, C. driveshaft to pinion/transmission alignment, and D. engine alignment. The engine should always be aligned perpendicular to the rearend and/or parallel to the centerline of the car. The driveshaft doesn't know which view these angles are resulting from, just that they are equal and opposite. JEFFREYS Fabrication is coming soon!!! Jul 25, 2011. Add to Cart. . I can understand not allowing alot of stuff from a cost perspective but weight jacks seem to be one of those things that are cheap to begin with and you end up spending 3 times as much money and alot more time trying to get the same result while complying with rules that don't allow them. Plan your shock layout by comparing the stiffness of one to the other corners and to the spring stiffness at the corner you are trying to control. .220 to .235 would be fine without a quickner. If we can raise the upper front link mounts, we can lower the rear RC by lowering the upper IC. Since the braking forces are in the opposite direction, there is a serious resistant force created which helps prevent the front suspension from moving in compression too quickly while braking. Although Im sure youre backing up your corner and lifting early, it can still wear the right front because the tendency is to lift as late as possible which can cause a faster corner entry than you might realize, causing the RF to heat up. Street Stock; Other; Best Selling. Copper has been known to kill tomato plants if placed directly into the stem or base, but placing copper wire around the wound may not have the same effect. The steering system in your car must be evaluated and any negative characteristics must be eliminated. Maybe if Billy would be more specific about how he made his stock setup work we could learn even more. If the LR tire is too cool, then the RR spring is too stiff. Take the RH arm and cut the tube off at the cross shaft, cut 1" off the tube and weld it back onto the cross shaft. Posted August 22, 2005. Any angle up hill to the right rear will cause upward force on both tires and unload both tires. Contact Us. The upper IC is to the rear of the rearend and the IC for the lower links is well in front of the rearend. What do I do if the car is loose or tight throughout the corner? Posts: 72. This was taken at Butler Speedway in Michigan. Track Tools. This variety grows best when grown alone and can reach up to 12 feet tall. 6. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. Turn the wheels to the left all the way, make a mark with the steering wheel, now count the turns it takes to go to full lock the opposite direction. Re: street stock set up. Always try to start with the track bars first. Only at teamsimkins.com. Antisquat is detrimental to corner entry. Most Metric cars I've evaluated have rear RC's up around 14.5 inches off the ground. I never felt good about cheating but when everyone does you need an even playing field. Lowering the rear RC and softening the RR spring will help solve the problem. The front moment center (MC) location plays a huge role in how the front end wants to work. Its important to make even adjustments, meaning you should make the same number of clicks on each spring perch. The upper BJ is trying to be forced in a forward direction and the lower BJ is trying to be forced in a rearward direction. men need when considering these types of changes. JP, are you saying that you were allowed to run it in that form - stock lowers with an aftermarket upper link? On the metric chassis the roll centers, from what I understand are mainly influenced by ride height, because we can't change control arms ect. So, again this year as in past years, we will present what is admittedly the formula for success related more for the conventional and what we call soft conventional setups mainly because these are the ones that produce more consistency and do win races. The cameros have been better then the metric cars at SAS for years,they used to let the metric cars raise the spring pockets in the rear if I remember right,I don't remember what else they were allowed to do though to be competitive. Ackermann is easily checked by using a laser system or strings. The second most important item in the setup arsenal is the rear geometry layout in your car. If the camaros are allowed adjustable rear shackles and are allowed to use different lowering blocks then they already have weight jacks and are allowed to adjusted rear roll center. . These components include the radiator, oil/transmission coolers, & brakes. The overall work that a shock does is to resist the rebounding of the springs and control the speed of compression. Antidive helps prevent sudden nose dive on entry by mechanically resisting the downward motion of the suspension using the rotational forces created through braking. If we have a top view difference in alignment between the transmission output shaft and the pinion shaft and they are parallel, then the angle to the driveshaft created by that misalignment might be sufficient to provide the needed angular differential needed for loading the U-joint bearings and reducing negative harmonics. We cover all forms of racing in the Midwest featuring racing news, results, photos & videos. If the same stiffly shocked corner is in rebound, less of the overall load will be retained by that corner, and its diagonal corner as well, during the rebound cycle only. The CCMS rules allow 3rd link and panhard bar. 10. That's why I asked about weight jacks in the original post. Go here but read before you post..lol. I was just trying to help a guy asking about what is done to the chassis. Heck, if you are paying 20 bucks to get into the pits you might . Adjust drag link accordingly, *unless something is bent, spindles, drag link, idler arms, etc. First, we don't want to restrict the movement of the arms too much. Page 1 of 1. Note the new cross weight and the ride heights. For the novice sim racer, all these setup options can seem overwhelming & confusing without the knowledge of what all these adjustments are or do.By understanding the basics of what each component is & how it directly effects the car, you'll quickly discover what direction you should head when trying to adjust for that looseness exiting the corner under acceleration. . 122. The number one reason a car will be tight and not want to turn is because the front end is not designed properly. It would be nice if we could change the rear suspension, I have done a lot of research on it and have found some info, there is just not a lot legally that can be done with it. Wheel Accessories. A level panhard bar ( same mounting height on both sides) means force is vectored laterally to the tires. My name is Rodney Arndt, I have an associates degree in automotive technology. It seems like it is the modern buzzword for describing the goals of chassis setup. I never got to the experimenting stage on asphalt. rolling chassis. If we can lower the Metric RC to 13 inches, we would increase the moment arm length in the rear to 4.5 inches and that's a huge improvement in compliance. Anderson , IN. SAS I seem to remember being faster than the sportsmans. . Got protested and is now in limbo! Looking forward to the tips for Dirt Oval racing! We had LF 1000, RF1300, LR 200, RR200. For many gardeners, it starts with tomatoes. This guide was awesome! Coreless Stretch Film; Pre-Stretch Film; Hand Roll; Machine Roll; Jumbo Roll; Industrial Plastic Division. This will help keep your ride heights in the ballpark. Setup Tools. This chassis utilizes our very popular double slotted strut style front clip. But just wondering what the heck guys are doing to these metric street stocks to make em so fast. Both of these ICs act like hard points of resistance to lateral movement of the chassis. Adjust the cross weight for more extreme conditions or different circumstances. And, it must be economically applied. Polyethylene Film / PE Sheet Then all you have to do is maintain that balance throughout the season and that means resisting making changes that take you outside that envelope. 3. . Flat Tracks: On an asphalt car, utilizing slightly stiffer rebound on the left side, while softening the rebound on the right side, will generally enhance the handling of the car. Play the all new "DANNY SIMKINS - 11 STRAIGHT - trivia game." . It is a low acid tomato with a unique flavor that has been described as sweet, yet slightly tangy. Off-centered adjusters can be very inconsistent. They have all kinds of articles and how to write ups on what to do with a metric four link to make it work better, how to use things like bump stops, progressive springs, gas shocks, sliding ballast, to make a car faster and more drivable. I would suggest going to www,4m.net to the tech board. Hey I am looking for some guidance setting up my 4 link GM metric rear end. Too low a ride height could cause the car to bottom out. Pure Stock Tech. We ran the car with a lot softer set up than that. A slight amount of rear steer to the left has been shown to help provide more traction at the rear and bite off the corners where it is needed. Rear Geometry So don't try it. Front End Geometry Russet mites are a type of pest that can cause damage to leaves, stems, and petioles. It is not advantageous to have the rearend steer to the right at any time on asphalt. Conversely, if the car feels tight throughout the corner, raise both track bars. Next is engine set back if allowed. They arent usually as good at spotting little modifications to every single part of the suspension. Ive made the brackets on the rear housing (lowers) longer with trailing arm mounts that have 3 . Posted October 3, 2005. No matter which stiffness you decide to go with, the most important aspect of setup is balance, and you achieve that balance with the correct combination of springs, moment centers, sway bars, and load distribution. Thanks a lot for making it. For me its very hard to be consistent and to adapt to the changing track states! So, we either lower the rear RC or soften the springs, especially the right rear spring, or preferably do both. Christjohn likes to get to the track early and get his car set up so he can watch the races. Order Wilwood part number 150-9442K. METRIC CROW FOOT Other Items Online Auctions at EquipmentFacts.com. $137.99. A complete body comes with the fiberglass hood and roof, plastic MD3 nose and tail, a set of skirts, trunk, a box of rivets. Motorcycle. With setups that use a very stiff right rear spring, the angle of the right trailing arm will need to be less than when using a conventional softer spring because that corner will move less. Location:Austin, Tx. Camber was -2 deg on RH and +2 deg on LH at ride height. Create New Wish List . Is this why Im wearing out the right front? If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. If you could slide the MC to the right, or outside of the turn for you road racers, the front end will get stiffer. Adjust all four spring perch offsets to change the cross weight. taipei city stock pictures, royalty-free photos & images Home. If you want to know how to adjust iRacing Sprint Car cross weight, go here. Conclusion Afco Racing Products. Conversion to Race Car When we convert a Metric four-link suspension to a racing application, we need to be aware of several important factors. (Uncheck the box beside Attach left side and use the arrows beside Left bar end clearance to zero the preload). Hobby Stock - (USRA/IMCA TYPE) Street Stock - (WISSOTA TYPE) Stock Car - (USRA/IMCA TYPE) We had no idea how popular and successful this line of chassis would be. I understand not wanting to share to much especially if your a racer, but who or where else can I gain info on this? Thanks g dirt i will try that.im not totaly done with car yet just try to get ideas thanks, you are real close to what guys are running, but g is right, scale the car, i run leaf springs or i would tell you what i was running. 70030. Check with the rules to see if it's even mentioned. Your close on the springs if the car is 3200. Sep 1, 2009. Would it be too much of an advantage to let these guys run a 3-link rear with solid links and panhard bar? In the end there is a ton of stuff out there, everyone seems to have something that works. Samuel232. Nick might be a better theory guy but I don't think that just adding a panhard bar will get you there. That was the only time that car was really fun to drive even though I opted not to go to tech because it was not legal for THR rules. Aug 24th 2005. The right-side tire contact patches will also need to be inline with the right front tire pointed straight ahead. Even when clear rules exist, the track officials are often reluctant to enforce them. If the car feels as if it wants to break loose under throttle in the center or on corner exit, or drive off the right rear wheel (wheel spin), increase the cross weight. The message I get from those who have worked this trend for a sufficient number of years is one of the following two types: 1) a continuing and constant search for balance in the car and a loss of success on the track, or 2) a returning to the more conventional setups because they have experienced number 1 above. There is no one big trick to make your care handle better, rather its all the little things done right that will make you consistently fast. A set up plan will help you to build a race winning effort. It's on a car that I'm helping with. A three link with panhard bar using the stock lower mounts works fine. In order to slow you must lose (kinetic) energy. We do not want to try to solve turn entry problems with the brake bias, we only need to make sure the car stays neutral in handling when the brakes are applied. Trends are a part of this learning curve and greatly influence some, but not all racers. My truck has weight jacks and a stock 4 link. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. Moderators:FeliciaMC88, UFo Race Championship. A very soft spring would need more compression rate and less rebound rate, whereas a stiff spring would need a lot of rebound rate and much less compression rate. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around . I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience circle track racing a mopar unibody. As a general rule, most asphalt stock cars run around 3.5 to 4.0 front roll center height, although many run lower roll centers than they would like simply because the stock location is very low . Just giving the car more rear traction, period, does not help us if the car becomes too tight in the middle of the turns and we could end up with the reverse of what we need. Anything helps when u trying to figure out a starting point.thanks for the input i will try some of this and see how it works i have raced some before mostly mini stocks. ANYBODY KNOW OF ANY STREET STOCK RACING CHEATS/TIPS. If we arrange our control arm angles, from a side view, for antidive, then as the car dives the upper BJ would move to the rear and the bottom BJ would move to the front.

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